Penny's husband Dean completed our NLP Practitioner course in June 2006 and we've been hearing about the effects from both Dean and Penny ever since. I went for a walk in Ravenscourt Park with Penny in January 2007 during a break in our coaching course and caught some of the essence of what NLP means to her and Dean.

John. So here we are with an interesting experience. Talking with someone who didn't come on our practitioner course. Talking about the effect the course has had on their other half and consequently themselves. So tell us a bit more Penny...

Penny. The first really nice experience for me was that Dean understood some of the NLP ideas that, as a coach, have really been influential in my thinking. He understood more about the language of NLP but also seemed to get more flexible and open-minded about doing things differently. He also seemed to recognise how much more useful it is sometimes to listen rather than solve my problems. And simply saw how useful it could be in the work that we do.

John. So how has it been useful in the work that you do together?

Penny. Well we both do various types of coaching with MD's. He has made suggestions about a few things, for example, presuppositions when I was stuck with a client. That worked really, really well. He's come up with ideas for training courses; say for example we are running one at the moment that's a half-day workshop for all the employees of one company based on the presupposition that 'you cannot not communicate'. That really comes from NLP. So it's created new ideas for work and services that could be of benefit to our clients and that we could do together - and it's been really fun working together on these new things...

John. That's the content, as it were, of what you've been doing. How has the process of working together been different?

Penny. Well Dean's simply been much easier to work with. Much more willing to take the best of both our approaches and to recognise the differences; appreciate the complimentary nature of two different people working together.

John. So it sounds like it's directly helped your business, directly helped both of you to contribute more and impacted on your personal life I suspect as well...

Penny. I'm not really sure if we could have sustained business as co-MD's and equal partners if we hadn't have made use of the communication skills and appreciated each other's strengths and differences.

John. So just be a little more specific in terms of the process. Where did you used to get stuck before and what tools are you using now to keep the flow when you are working together?

Penny. That's a big question...

John. Yes it is... You said you couldn't have worked together before and now you can. So I'm curious about what other people would have seen before and what they would see now? How's the behaviour different?

Penny. Ok, well the biggest thing I suppose is that we can both coach each other and find other coaches when we get stuck. So the idea of actually being facilitated by somebody else or have our stuck issues supported by somebody else reading us or helping us as a coach probably just wouldn't have happened before. I think the way that we are both prepared to bring others in or come at things from different angles is really different. I think that we were both always quite intuitive but are more trusting of it now. Each other's intuition as well as our own. And I think we deal with clients in a different way as well. Much more 1-2-1 and personal stuff rather than just process and content. Did I answer the question?

John. Well I think so. What is coming to my mind, listening to your answers, it sounds like there's a hell of a lot more trust there but also at the same time a lot less ego. Would that be fair to say?

Penny. Umm... more confidence, more well-founded confidence and more security I would say. Yes, and not defensiveness.

John. Now a lot of people might be thinking about maybe doing a course together. What would you say about that?

Penny. By all means do a course together but be careful not to work together all the time. There is a lot of value working with new people. Trying new things out with new people is easier in some ways. From what I've seen there are often greater personal benefits from working with others rather than your nearest and dearest.

John. And there's also a big advantage from sharing the same experience at the same time...

Penny. Absolutely. It's lovely having the same knowledge and language. You'll both do the same course but even though you're doing the same course you will both end up with two completely different experiences.

John. So any final words for couples or one half of a couple thinking about doing an NLP course?

Penny. Well whether you're doing it for work or home life I can't imagine anyone not getting a huge personal benefit. It's simply transformational. This should be in schools... I think everyone should have a basic grounding of some of the material - it makes everything so much easier...

John. What would you say to people who say it's 'too late to learn'?

Penny. Pah! People are changing their careers in their 50's these days. There's no reason why an old dog can't learn some really new tricks. And they're so useful you just go the very next day, put them into use and they really work.

John. Great! Thanks very much.

Penny. My pleasure.